I Prefer

It's saddening when even pastors are immature and worldly.

2 young pastors expressed that they don't "prefer" to preach on Saturday. Probably because of the smaller size of audience and that they were being criticized on their sermons.

Usually I would stand on the side of the pastors when people criticize sermons, but even before I heard that there are criticism on their sermons, I already find their sermons to be problematic and unbiblical. I am actually glad that somebody finally told them because they think they were great and a bit too prideful of their sermons.

One of them preaches sermons with no conclusion, share way too much about his experience and his limited knowledge instead of using the Bible as the groundwork. MOre than half the time he has good intention but his sermons are confusing and he doesn't give Biblical conclusion. There is not authoritative God-view in his sermon. The same can be said for the other one.

The other basically preaches post-modernist sermons. Very dangerous. I hope he knows what the heck he's doing with these sermons. Actually it's bad either way. If the sermons are intentional then there is something wrong with his theology. If he doesn't then he is basically dumb and not know what the heck he's talking about.

Most church goers can't detect these things for several reasons:

• falling asleep during sermon
• not paying attention during sermon
  
• poor Biblical knowledge and base
• poor theology
• haven't heard much sermons or talks outside of their own church
• poor spiritual life
• worldly view
• disconnection from God

and etc...

I still remember one time I asked a slight younger brother about the sermon and he complained about presentation, on how the pastor was speaking softly one moment and then loud the next. I was really asking about the content of the sermon. Judging presentation is shallow. I wonder if that's all that he remembered from the sermon, that there were too much crescendos and descendos. What about the content?

I got the same disappointing commentary after a fellowship talk also, but this time by a deacon who I thought highly off. Yeah, the deacon commented also on presentation and how there should be small group reflecting. That was the deacon's only comment. I was wondering, "What about the stuff that the speaker was talking off? Was there reflection?" I wonder if these people are in state of denial and made these shallow comments because they were embarrassed that they weren't really listening carefully or do they really only care about plain "presentation."

I also don't like this mentality of complaining about presentation. It reminds me the trend of a lot of school kids blaming the teachers for not teaching the class well. The trend is epidemic. There are bad teachers everywhere, I believe there are only a small number of really good teachers, then like 50 or more percent of average teachers (good) and then like 20% bad teachers. But from the way you hear Hong Kong kids speaking on teachers, you would think 90% of the teachers are bad at teaching.

As for the preferences.

Do you really get a choice I would like to ask them back?

Yeah, I prefer to be 6'8" with a built like Lebron James and IQ of 180.

Pastor Statistics

Pastors today are faced with more work, more problems, and more stress than any other time in the history of the church. This is taking a frightening toll on the ministry, shown by the statistics below:

Pastors:

• Fifteen hundred pastors leave the ministry each month due to moral failure, spiritual burnout or contention in their churches.

• Four thousand new churches begin each year, but over seven thousand churches close.

• Fifty percent of pastors' marriages will end in divorce.

• Eighty percent of pastors and eighty-four percent of their spouses feel unqualified and discouraged in their role as pastors.

• Fifty percent of pastors are so discouraged that they would leave the ministry if they could, but have no other way of making a living.

• Eighty percent of seminary and Bible school graduates who enter the ministry will leave the ministry within the first five years. Ninety percent of pastors said their seminary or Bible school training did only a fair to poor job preparing them for ministry.

• Eighty-five percent of pastors said their greatest problem is they are sick and tired of dealing with problem people, such as disgruntled elders, deacons, worship leaders, worship teams, board members, and associate pastors. Ninety percent said the hardest thing about ministry is dealing with uncooperative people.

• Seventy percent of pastors feel grossly underpaid.

• Ninety percent said the ministry was completely different than what they thought it would be before they entered the ministry.

• Seventy percent felt God called them to pastoral ministry before their ministry began, but after three years of ministry, only fifty percent still felt called.

• Seventy percent of pastors constantly fight depression.

• Almost forty percent polled said they have had an extra-marital affair since beginning their ministry.

Pastors' Wives:

• Eighty percent of pastors' spouses feel their spouse is overworked.

• Eighty percent of pastor' wives feel left out and unappreciated by the church members.

• Eighty percent of pastors' spouses wish their spouse would choose another profession.

• Eighty percent of pastors' wives feel pressured to do things and be something in the church that they are really not.

• The majority of pastor's wives surveyed said that the most destructive event that has occurred in their marriage and family was the day they entered the ministry.

Pastors' Children:

• Eighty percent of adult children of pastors surveyed have had to seek professional help for depression.

Pastors' Relationship With the Lord:

• Seventy percent of pastors do not have a close friend, confidant, or mentor.

• Ninety-five percent of pastors do not regularly pray with their spouses.

• Eighty percent of pastors surveyed spend less than fifteen minutes a day in prayer.

• Seventy percent said the only time they spend studying the Word is when they are preparing their sermons.

Reason for clergy shortage? Just ask why pastors leave churches

A growing challenge in many denominations is finding enough pastors to serve the churches that are vacant. More people are leaving the ministry ranks (through resignation or retirement) than are joining them. In my own denomination, the Christian Reformed Church, plans to start new churches are repeatedly scaled back because we can’t find enough qualified pastors to start these new churches. Our denomination is having a hard enough time finding enough pastors to fill vacant churches, let alone finding pastors to start new ones. Why the shortage of ministers?

Several years ago, consultants Alan and Cheryl Klaas were hired by the Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) to investigate this issue. They were tasked to find the root causes of the clergy shortage that many denominations are facing. The problem they uncovered was unexpected (to them) and troubling. The reason for the drop-off of new ministry recruits matched the reason for an increase in people leaving ministry: the conflict, criticism, and ill-treatment that has become an all-too-common aspect of ministry life. What follows is an excerpt of an article in the Baptist standard:

“[This research study] was intended to be a traditional recruitment and retention study,” Klaas said. For example, he thought he’d be recommending changes on issues like seminary communication with potential students.

“We wondered if students got good services, if seminaries were recruiting the right people,” he explained. But in the end, the Klaases concluded the problems are 20 percent institutional and 80 percent behavioral.

“The fundamental finding is that people beating on each other is the main issue,” Klaas said.

One telling statistic from the Klaas study is the decrease in the numbers of pastors’ kids who become pastors themselves. Klaas estimates that pastors’ children made up about 40 percent of seminarians in the 1950s and ’60s. It’s a much different picture now at the two seminaries in the denomination Klaas was working with. Last year, pastors’ children made up only 5 percent of seminarians at one and 17 percent at the other.

The bottom line is that churches need to do a better job at caring for and supporting their pastors. Another way of looking at it — from the vantage point of the pastors themselves — is to say that pastors need to do a better job of caring for and supporting themselves (through training, taking time off, participating in support groups, etc.). Instead of sitting back and hoping that the church will do it for you, create a plan and insist on the church’s support for you to take the steps you need to care for your physical, emotional, and spiritual health.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened in my case, had I done this. I tried to do it, but was not clear enough about what I needed, or insistent about getting the funding to get help. To be honest, I don’t think I really understood what I needed or how badly I needed it until it was too late. Don’t make that mistake.

Used

As a PK, I got no problem with serving with my heart and soul, but something often crosses my mind and it's that I might be "used."

I am not talking about being "used" by God, but about being "used" by people and their schemes.

Being put into difficult serving positions because as a PK, some people actually think that I am the "extra" part of church or the "extension" of the pastor, and not a regular brother or sister who has feeling, can get hurt, would complain and etc. PKs, in their eyes, can be "compromised" (and that is a nice word at that). At times I do know that I am being used. Being put into tough situation or serving positions that no one else wants to do, do the dirty work, not being treated honestly and etc. But I just do it anyway. Because I can see the ultimate good, and what I can do in those situation.

Some people might think I am stupid for doing all that, doing so much for so little in return, but my reward is not here. Some people, and in my case, the leaders and even some pastors would choose ministries and serving positions that get a lot of exposure and "rewards". Some of these serving positions require very little work but get great recognition. Some of the important dirty work are outsourced to others.

What are those earthly "rewards"?

Positions that would give them cult following. Positions that are prestigious like chairperson of this and that committee (where in some cases the actual work is given to the other "lower" members). Positions with uniform. In ministries that are fun and thus people would join and have fun and be happy and love the person in charge who also have a lot of fun. Nothing wrong with having fun, but using it also along line with making a following is wrong.

Actually this personality cult following trend is just utterly wrong and disastrous to the growth of church. It is very harmful and has a profound effect on current and future leadership of this church.

The people who are in leadership position is using this stupid and wrong strategy. It creates so much relationship/people problems, setbacks and dilemmas. And the worst thing is that the younger ones following the same strategy thinking that it is the "right" way to go.

Unity

Guys, the "HEAD" is GOD! Not individuals. We are suppose to make people into fans of God, not fans of other sinful human beings.

God unites us, by following God, we are united. When we follow people, we will be divided, and actually that's the situation right now. We are divided because we are following people.

The theme is still simplicity.

I don't like how church is becoming more worldly in its operation and under the table deals and relationship, people getting used and etc.

It is just not what it is suppose to be.

This church is really a mess. There are so many core problems mainly with its culture that will continue to create problems. The structure is weak. There is way too many unhealthy relationships. A disorderness that is continuing to cause problems and misunderstandings.

The worst is that there is a tradition of manipulation and influence. Things are not in the open. There are backdoor deals, things are not in the open, people are afraid of responsibility and those with titles are unmotivated and incapable of doing anything.

And looking around, there are hardly any good quality leaders who are not (intentionally or unintentionally) grounded and uncorrupted by the world. Really. There is a shortage. I have no idea how in the world we can set things right and clean up this messy system we have here.

It's like a malfunction machine. The left hand can't coordinate with the right hand, the left foot doesn't communicate with the thigh. The right foot has a secret deal with the neck but doesn't know what the left leg is doing while the left index finger is trying control the right shoulder. Uuur. What can you do here? It's getting better but I am seeing a decade project and I am being optimistic (hoping that no shit happens in between and a lot of shit is happening as of now).

There is also a lack of respect for clergy and a tradition of incapable and irresponsible deacons who...I don't know what to say about them. Some of them are just bad, selfish people. People that you wouldn't even hire for work. The finance is a mess, for over a year we have been getting inaccurate budgeting. Urr. We need an extra pastor and for some strange reasons we still haven't after 2 years! Some of the deacons are just lazy. Some are manipulative. The ones who have good intention are not too mature, not too grounded in the faith (worldly) or the Word, naive and just being manipulated or are too afraid to stand up.

I just don't know what is going on. Can they live with themselves? Can the divine ray of God just blast us with truth and knowledge? We really need that. Just wake us up. I don't know how the deacons just can't lead. We ened leaders. I find myself pushing one of the deacons to hold meeting for something we have to do and I have been asking and pushing and reminding the deacon for like at least 4 months. What the heck is going on? What do they think they are doing exactly? They have to lead. Lead by example. Do they know Jesus? Jesus lead by doing it, walking the talk, serving others. Some deacons hers just think they are CEOs or something and their roles is to tell people to do work. NO No NO. Lead by serving. Lead by doing. Do the talk. not just talk and no work.

People have channel vision. Get a wider church perspective. There is also an addiction with control. All these leaders are like power thirsty or something. They just need to control others. Need to raise up a bunch of followers, a bit like Mao Zedong's personality cult.

Can we just do what Christians at church are suppose to do. Serve God? Not ourselves. Not to build personality cult like Mao but fanfare for God. Love God, your alligence to God, not your favorite person at church or the guy who makes you feel the best or spoil you.

All these diseaes. What can we do with them.

simplicity

sometimes i wish life is more simple. 

church is just freaking complicated with a lot of dumb stuff. i can't go to church without feeling a little pressure, a little anger, some frustration and some tiredness. And it's quite lonely. 

i can't believe how just a handful of wolves in sheep skin can cause so much damage. even half of the shepherds are making compromise and deals with the wolves. this is hell. it's lawlessness and very very discouraging. 

went to a Bible talk by a scholar and he reminded us that at church, we are basically a collection of scums. We are there because we know that we are scams and we need God. What we share in common is our sinfulness. 

it reminded me of the time in college when during small group, the guys all confessed their sins to one another. how i miss that now. 

i can't do that at church, there are too many enemies who would be too happy to stab you if you show weaknesses or wrong. 

is this church able to function like a church? i m not too sure. are we just a party club? 

it is really sad to see how the body of Christ is so not the body of Christ with so much selfishness and corruption, rumors, gossips and etc. it a pain to see. and it is so hard to stand. 

The most scary and frightening thing is seeing people changing with their attitudes changing. It's quite obvious. A older brother who used to be quite friendly becomes rather hostile. He tries to pretend to be nice but it's there, i know that his view of me has changed. He sets up a wall between us, is less courteous, less friendly, guarded and short-tempered around me. It's heart breaking because I know that it is because somebody influenced him. Somebody probably said something to him. It is painful because this brother is a good brother, a good man on fire for God. The only thing is that he is somewhat naive, innocent and can't distinguish the wolves from the sheep so got prey on and used by the wolves. It is sad. Serving in church really make you understand Superman really. Superman can't use evil tactics and quite helpless at some situation because his moral value limits what he can do, but it also makes him great. 

Yeah, so yup, guys like me just look on and sigh~ The thing with us is that we don't try to make people worship us. We get people to worship God. We don't spend much of our time making "personality cult" like Mao Zedong or Lin Bao. We don't have time for that and it is very wrong according to our dictionary because that is not what it is suppose to be. 

I visited a webpage of one of the so-called shepherd and he posted stuff like: "Oh, I am puking blood," "being overworked," "the challenge is so great yet there is still a mountain to be climbed" and such as to get sympathy and let people know how hard he is working and to win over people. Man, I was like, you are not the only one, stop being so boastful of your so-called suffering. He's colluding with the wolves for selfish intention. He's compromising his values. At times I even wonder why he came to be a pastor at all. If flame is what he wants, why don't he go and be an actor or singer or etc? Oh, he's not good-looking enough, but his acting is definitely Oscar worthy so he can be an actor. 

When he preaches, he doesn't preach the Word of God or to the people, he preach to please the wolves. Another one compromises his preaching with the wolves. He would walk around the main message without actually saying it. His sermon becomes a big puzzle and can be interpreted as you like it. That's "post-modern" preaching. Excellent. It's sad. Very sad. What are the use of preachers who can't preach? 

I don't know what they are afraid of really. They are in their 40s, quite young with a lot of future ahead, years ahead. Why are they making compromises so soon and so young. What are they afraid of? People? Losing their jobs? Satan? Or God? 

If God is who they fear, what is there to fear otherwise? 

ENTER

What is happening now is what I have been fearing for a very long time while at this church. 

I know that things are not too good, but I did not know that it would come to this level. It has become very hard for good people to stand here. Good Christians either become quiet, hide from the spotlight and important responsibility, make compromises, get influenced and used, or leave the church outright. 

I know that some people are thinking of leaving and my heart goes out to them. They are leaving because they can't compromise with evil. And the number of good, mature, solid grounded Christians at this church is diminishing. We need those people, those good people to help us, not leave us but I understand their situations. The living space is being diminished day by day. The wolves are cunning, use dirty tools that good people can't use and squeezing the living space out of the good. 

I don't think we can replenish strong, mature Christians fast enough to take up the places of those who left and are leaving. It takes a lot of heart, time, and strong and mature Christians to nurture just a few young Christians into strong soldiers of God. And we are now losing the trainers, the ones who can mentor the young. 

To Give

This post also has to do with something mentioned earlier with the questioning.

As a PK and growing up in a pastor's family, I have been curious about how other church people view us. What are we to them?

Are we tools? People to be used? Friends? Fellow church members? Workers? Brothers and sisters? God's helpers? Servants of God? People to be respected? Slaves? Employees (die hard volunteers)? or what?

It bothers me a bit really, when I get questions that make me feel like less than an individual.

Ever since coming out of age, it really takes a leap of faith and courage to serve and be active at a church where my dad serves. There are always expected pain and hurt. There's always some kind of shit no matter how well you do. In fact, the better you do, the harder satan works against you.

To be involved in a ministry, you would naturally throw your heart out, and once you do that, you are putting your heart out there with the possibility of getting hurt. I did think about that.

People sometimes say ugly things like, "You are not a church member," "You didn't grow up in this church, " "You are not from this denomination," and others that are discriminating and insulting. My allegiance is to God, not of any particular earthy denomination or church. We serve God, not denomination. I get upset when I get asked, "Are you from [this denomination]?" or "Did you grow up in [this denomination]?" Some people actually use these kind of questions to raise suspicions. (Suspicion of what? loyalty?) I see these questions almost as insult to my testimony. It's discrimination.

And I must say, a lot of people actually don't know much about their so-called "denomination." They probably don't know its founder, how it came about and etc.

The funny case for us PKs is that since the average time a pastor work at a church is about 5-6 years, unlike most Christian, we don't get to grow up in one (or two) church for our whole lives. And it's a double edged sword. There are advantages to growing up in one church for your whole life and also disadvantage of it. Same for us that been to several churches.

PKs like me have to deal with a lot of insecurity. That comes with not having a very stable life and support group, and spiritual community. We are often expected to give a lot but get little back. I always feel that there are sides of me that are underdeveloped and that I wasn't nurtured enough.

Growing up in overseas Chinese churches where was mostly only one pastor being my dad, I didn't get regular nurturing from a pastor. And PKs are often neglected at church. People demands a lot for their kids but PKs are often not cared for. It would be better if I grew up in one church where people know who I am and watched me grow up from a kid, but as entering different churches as teenager and young adult, there are some expectation. I was not to be nurtured or be a burden of church members but be helpful and give.

I don't think it's fair and it leaves me a little bitter but life goes on. I often try very hard to forget about that and think that as long as the end result is for the Lord and for good, then I am okay with it.

The scars and hurt come when things don't turn out well. It's like a rock behind thrown into the face. Or to where it is delicate and most painful.

Things seem to be really negative and I might sound like an angry person, but it's only because negative stuff ticks me off the most.

Life isn't all that bad, church life isn't all bad. Most of it is good I would like to think and it's probably true.

It's funny how few people or one or two incidents can have so much negative impact. It's a petty. But when you count the blessings, you can't keep track at all because there are simply too much.

Even things that some people intended for bad end up having some positive effect. They sometimes backfire for good.

The past week, I went to practice basketball with other brothers and had a great time with the guys. In the team, we have boys in their 10s, me and Ken in our 20s and others in their 30s and 40s. We have a good bunch. I like how we are of different fellowships and age range.

Saturday service and then church's trip on Sunday. I enjoy being with other brothers and sisters. There were some quiet hostility from some people but those can be ignored. We had fun, had some time to talk and know more about one another. It was time like that that I got to forget about the troubles at church and truly enjoy one another's company like we should. When I can be more of myself, be freer and open myself up more.

There are so much craps we don't need at church.

I heard of news how several senior leaders at churches and seminaries are going through hard time. My hearts go out to them. It's very difficult to stand up for God nowadays. People are different now, more worldly than ever and more self-centered and selfish. People are harder to manage now.

I see the current generation of clergy as sneakier, more worldly, with less struggles and less spiritual maturity. They might be smarter with more advance degrees (actually not really) and better at dealing with people and with ways of the world, but they make compromise with the world to succeed.

The older generations of clergy were more idealistic, pure, simple, spiritually solid, endured (or remembered) more hardship and had a better (purer) heart for God. It can be said that they are also naive, but no, they just knew the truth better.

I look back at the early generation of church leaders in Hong Kong like Dr. Teng and Rev. Bao who were very well educated, been through tough times, had great heart for God and despite their success and their positions, are very humble human beings. They are incredible people. I met them several times and they were very gentle, humble people. Very nice old men. There's no pride or self-glorification in their manners. I thank God that I got to meet them. Just being at their presence taught me a lot.

They have pure hearts for God and with a lot of faith. I hope more pastors nowadays are like them. They are truly servants of God. We need more people like them now.

Disturbed

I guess not too much encouragement here. A lot of venting here because the issues that I am facing are things that are difficult to talk with others, especially people from church.

Being a PK, a large portion of my life is revolved around church, just like many other devoted Christians out there. But there are some differences and one of the issue that I am facing is one of frustration. The frustration has to do with how my personal, family life is becoming part of church gossips and church politics.

It pisses me off literally. This post is actually ignited by what I typed in one of the older post. I was asked if I can differentiate between my father's serving and my own. I actually wanted to reply, "Can you differentiate?" and I wanted to add, "Why are you asking this question? What the intention of the question?" Why can't he just spit it out clearly?

GOSSIPING

Another rumor is about whether my brother would go back to US to study. It is somewhat a church gossip topic. Why does it matter whether my brother is going to US for school? Why is there such a rumor. The other part of the rumor is that maybe my dad would go with my brother to US.

What the heck? Where do all these rumors come from? How come I have to hear it from someone else? Why does my brother's future education possibility get on the church gossip column? Why is my brother being used in church politic?

It is wrong and I am angry. This should not be happening. I am further disappointed in how there's no concern and care about the feelings of my brother, father, mother and I in this matter. Whoever started this rumor is using my brother, an innocent young high school kid, as a tool for his own selfish reasons.

That person is polluted and perverted, and has a very serious problem. What the heck is wrong with him or her?

It is perverted, it is utterly wrong. Think about it. That gossiper used an innocent child's future education prospect as way to manipulate people's view of the senior pastor of the church.

How wrong can that be? And it's spreading all the way back to my family. Someone asked, "He [my brother] is going overseas for school?"

How come I don't know that? My brother is going to school overseas?

Intention

What is the intention behind this rumor? It is very clear, that the senior pastor, my father, is planning on leaving the church soon.

What the heck?

I pretty much guess the gossiper intended the rumor to make people doubt the senior pastor's commitment to the church.

So corrupted and such lack of moral and decency. Can he just shut up? And it's spreading, influencing many members of the church. People need to stop. People who heard the gossip have to tell that person to stop, and that it's wrong.

Afterthought

I actually questions people's ability to distinguish what's right and wrong, what's gossip and what's not. My church's education level is actually not bad and relatively highly educated in comparison to other churches. (At least the ratio of PhD is pretty good) But do we have high moral and ethical standard ? Is our sense of right and wrong strong? Can we distinguish black from white? And vice versa? Do we have a good relationship with God? Are we listening to Him? Are we reflecting on our lives with God's Word? Are we Christ's elite soldiers?

I wish the answer is "Yes," but it's probably a "No" for many and "Yes" for a few. I hope that there will be a revival and we need it now, not later, now.

I think part of the problem is that we are being influenced by worldliness, post-modernism. We learn to refer to terms such as things being "technically correct," "politically correct," "legally correct," "logically sound (logical),"and etc., but we forget about what's Biblically correct. Bible is no longer our guide, the Word of God is no longer paramount. We refer to the "government's standard" and other kinds of measurement. In other words, worldly standard.

We are in a difficult time, especially in a city like Hong Kong. We are dealing with a lot of worldly forces, the tools of satan. We need to be strong. We can't afford to kill ourselves at home (church), we can't afford to go on hurting one another. We need to consolidate ourselves. Get armed with our shield, helmet, armor and sword. Build up one another, not tear one another apart with gossips, rumors and other means.


May God help us.



I guess it's a good think my brother is going to another church, an English church, so he doesn't have to hear these ridiculous things. TC is the first church he went to in Hong Kong and he grew up here. He enjoyed Sunday school here when he was small but then his friends at Sunday school left and soon he was the only one in class. Very depressing. He had to join an older class. Also, the Sunday school "Chinese" textbook text was getting a bit too difficult for him to read. Now he's going to a church many of his friends go and they have a very good youth ministry there.

It's actually another example of how PKs get neglected. It's depressing, our parents spend so much time at church yet the needs of PKs are often not cared for (yet still be expected to be model in church). My brother had been going to TC for more than 4 years but when he left, nobody raised any concern. It seemed as if nobody cared. People only ask when it comes up in a conversation or when my brother comes for a visit and say something like, "I haven't seen him for so long." It hurts my mom a bit. In a span of about 4-6 months, nobody raised any concern. It's sad. It's unfair.

And...

It also raised other problems at church, such as:
How come my brothers' peers stopped going to Sunday ( and TC)?
Why did the families of kids leave TC?
If my brother left without follow-up, then, did the other kids (and their families) get any needed attention?

These questions lead to other questions, such as:

How come there are age (generation) gaps at church?
Why are people leaving?
Are we paying attention to the needs of people?

And these questions lead to more questions and so on...

Dreams for TC

There are several things I wish for TC. For people of different fellowships and background to be united no matter how we were brought up and reared by who.

I wish that all of us could be one big family, like what it should be.

I dream that the young brothers and sisters at TSF will be firm in the Word of God and the faith. To be ever young at heart and energetic, bring their friends and become good leaders to help others. Wish that they will be strong like the house built on a rock.

I hope that the good leaders at TC be strong and that God speaks to them and give them wisdom and courage.

Real Life

Today, I had lunch with a pastor at church and one of the questions that came up was, well, actually the question was very indirect, but the meaning was clear. It was about my commitment to church and whether I am serving because of my dad or not (or for church). It was very vague question but the intention and meaning of the question was very clear. It was on whether I am here committed to serve church whether my father would continue to serve the church or not. The pastor made the example of, "If your brother is going to school overseas with your dad, would you still be at this church? Can you make the distinction."

I find the question offensive. And I think he should know better. The question really was "if I would stay if my dad leave the church." He versed the question very carefully so that on surface it doesn't seem to be anything of significance but it is.

I have been asked to change my membership. And I have resisted not because I don't care. I care about the church intensely, I lose sleep because of bad things happening at church, I feel pain when things go wrong at church and my father feels the same.

I am very concern with the church, probably more concern than most of the "church members." Why? Because this is God's church. This is God's and it is being polluted and perverted. I cry for the innocent people at church. The new believers, the high school students, the young, the good and naive. I care for their spiritual walk, foundation in the faith and relationship with God. I would pain me a lot if I see the church decay. To see these energetic young Christians get perverted by twisted people who are too selfish to see the Truth. Too selfish to see God, too selfish and too prideful to see that this is not their church, this is God's church, Christ's body.

If an average church goer or member see what I see, know what I know about the ugly things that go on in this church, he would probably leave. In fact, a lot of people have left. There is reason why there's holes (population gap) at church.

Going to this church is difficult for me, but I serve here with my heart and devote much time to it because I believe that I could a difference and hopefully people can see that things can be improved, that we can make a breakthrough. I hope that through my serving, people can see my father's position. There are gossips going around, negative things going around about my father which are untrue. I want them to see that it's not so by action, not words, but action.

I knew that when I decided to be more involved at church that the more involved i am at serving, the difficult and painful it would be. because when you serve, you throw part of your heart out there, and naturally you get attached and form relationships with people. The deeper you get, the deeper the hurt can be when things go wrong. The stake go up. I think experienced pastors know this fact and so do people who serve wholeheartedly. It's kind of like the more you hope for the greater the disappointment could be.

And at times, even when you throw yourself out to serve, to make a difference, it might not be appreciated or accepted. You might rejected. We can see Paul experienced that sometimes in his letters. But as Christian, as servants of God, we sometimes have to make tough decisions and know that we do it for God. We do what's right and acceptable not in the sight of men but in the eyes of God. We serve God, that's our ultimate purpose. Sometimes we have to made decisions and act on them. We can fool people but we can't fool God and we will be accountable to Him.

We can be short-sighted and look only at treasures (of the world) that we can see with our naked eyes. The treasure is up there. That's what important, not what's down here. It pains me that even some pastors at church do not know what they are doing at best, or at worst, doing wrongs knowingly for personal benefits. That is painful to see. It's a petty. It's heartbreaking.

We can be so much better. We can do so much better. We have so much potential. But some of us chose not to and stall and limit what we can do for God.

We need God, the world needs God. The world, especially a place like Hong Kong, needs God. We need to know what's right and wrong, and say "No" to wrongs and do what's right. We are given free will, we are responsible for ourselves. We are responsible for our ministries, church, for our community, our city. Nobody going to do it for us. We have to do it. It should be our burden, our mission.

I answered with, "My approach is that I will serve as long as I am here," I don't know how long I would be here but as long as I am here, I would like to serve the church in whatever ways I can that would benefit the church. I serve the Lord and that's beyond any earthly church membership and barrier. I even said that it is difficult for me to see myself living in Hong Kong in the long run, permanently, like in ten years. As long as I am here, I would like to serve actively. That's my attitude in serving, I give what I can give: time, energy, heart, soul, mind, etc. 

I can't see what tomorrow going to bring. I do not know how long I would stay here. Anything can happen, things can change. People living in Hong Kong should understand this. We live in a society of constant change. But does that mean we don't do what is needed to be done now, just because we don't know what tomorrow is going to bring? No. 

It's like playing competitive sport, like football (soccer). As a player, you practice, train and keep your body in the best shape possible in preparation for the football match. You might be playing against a stronger team with little hope of winning, or you might get injured by a tackle, or you might get a red card, or you might be traded to another team before the next match, or you might even die on the field. Nobody knows, but you get prepare for that match no matter what. You hope to play well and you hope to win disregarding whether you know the outcome or not. 

What is it like being a PK?

Every now and then, I get people asking me, "What is it like being a pastor's kid? Do you have pressure?"

It's a question that I find myself having a little trouble to answer despite knowing the answer so well. I usually give the standard answer like "Yes, there is pressure. I have to think carefully before I speak..." And I think that's usually all I can say. There are a lot more but what can I say when a church member ask me?

I can't really say, "Well, I get to take in some of the heat from people misbehaving in church. I feel like I am pretending to be someone else sometimes. There are lots of crappy, stupid, maddening things happening at church and I can't talk about it with anybody. I get judged harshly and my parents get complaints when I mess up. I think people sometimes take us for granted, disrespecting us and I can't say anything about it. I get excluded sometimes because of who my dad is and not who I am. People expect a lot from me yet I don't get as much caring in return, at least that's how I feel. I feel that I am giving a lot at times without getting the caring and nurture I needed. People expect that I get a lot of pastor's care and know a lot about the Bible and theology because my dad is a 'living Bible dictionary' but you know what, the church took most of my dad's time from me. I don't get the same pastoral care as you, sometimes I get jealous of church members, when they have a problem they can call my dad while I, well, can't really go to my dad for some of the issues I have." And stuff like that. Some of them are just not ...appropriate I guess (there should be a better word for it).

What is it really like to be a PK in a Chinese church?

I actually been a PK in 2 Hong Kong churches, a Chinese-Australian church and a Chinese-American church.

It was good when I was little because I got a lot of attention and it was fun. Church was kind of like my playground and when you were a kid, people just adore you. Lot of big sisters there to pamper you and give you candies and stuff. And I was too young to know anything.

The hard part was going to another church especially during adolescent years. That was a time when support and peers really mattered. And also at that time, i began to know what was going on at church with stupid politics and gossips and etc.

Overseas Chinese Churches: 1st Generation and ABCs

In the overseas church like the Chinese-American and Australian churches I find that it were elders, the parents who were born in China who had the most problems and stir things. Making something out of nothing. Mostly, they are the onces who use different dirty tricks to disrupt ministries. They are somewhat polluted, very self-centered and play the power game at church. Very un-Christian. I guess they just have too much pride. Too much face. But then they are only a very small minority yet they affect the church so much because of their web of personal ties.

The ABCs, on the other hand, are more pure and don't get as much in politics. They are generally nice and good-intended people.

It has probably to do with how the 1st generation who came to US or Australia had to struggle and don't have much standing or status in work or in society so church is like the place where they can be powerful, with standing and etc. I am guessing here. Whereas the 2nd generation who grew up in US or Oz (Australia) do pretty well in their social standing at work and in society. They don't see themselves as second-class citizens, at least not as much as their parents who probably had a hard time dealing with English and this "new" environment. The ABCs see themselves more as Americans or Australians. They don't have much power jealousy at church and probably reared up well by the youth pastors who their parents hired specifically to make sure their kids turn out alright.

And Chinese kids generally do well in school so go to good universities and get good jobs. They are happier people, and their hearts for God is purer.

That's my theory at least. It's not base on any research but just on my observation.


Dad, pastor, serving, church

It's natural for PKs to serve in church. I think that can be one of the good things of being PKs, there's always opportunity to serve. Sometimes, we might get hauled to serve in stuff that nobody wants to do but I do get called on. It's like double-edged sword. When church people see a spot to fill, they often call the PKs first. There is some pressure there. My sister probably had a hard time with that. She had a hard time saying "No" to people and at times ended up being really exhausted from serving that takes away from the joy to serve our Lord and it became somewhat tedious and job-like. Some church leaders and pastors get push people a bit too much.

As a PK, I find it somewhat uncomfortable to say "No" because of the whole reputation, being the pastor's kid, you should a role model and some people have this really unhealth concept that when you hire a pastor, his wife and whole family come as a whole package-like buy one and get one to five FREE. (The buy one get one free concept is actually being abused in many overseas churches) The thing is that some people think that the pastor's family should serve as much as the pastor, like the extension crew and with that kind of thinking, the pastor's family just don't get appreciated. We become part of the church staff.

Not saying that we don't want to serve, but this attitude towards the pastor's family is just plain wrong. We should be treated as fellow Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ, not staff, outside people. One example I had was when we set up table. An older brother (usually Chinese refer to as an uncle) would tell me to set tables and i would do it without complaint but why was i the only one being called on by time to set up the tables? What about the other boys? His own kids? Why was I always (or very often) the only one called up? That's discrimination. I was set apart as being something different.

And I got minimum care and nurturing. I still remember the time when I was put into a very isolated room during summer retreat while all the other boys were roomed near one another. That was total isolation. I was not one of them. I was something else. I was staff. And I was only a teenager. There were little effort by the parents of other children to include me in their activities. They cared very much for their own kids but I was something else. If there was work to be done, tedious stuff, then I would be called on, but everything else I was excluded out on.

I was at that church for about 4 years and it was hard to take. But then I understood why so many pastor's kids hate church, runaway from church or are very rebellious. Did I see Christian love? Were we treated as fellow brothers and sisters? No way. We were being abused. We were being excluded, set apart. I totally can understand why some PKs turned away from Christ. A very regular church member would probably just leave that church, but a PK can't. His dad has a reputation, he has to be an example. People expected unreasonable things from PK and his dad and family.

If the same situation happens to a regular church goer, he would leave in anger. PKs are human and would do likewise. Some people blame it on the pastor, but it's the church people who are really responsible. What the pastor do? I truly feel for my fellow PKs and know a few who don't like church.

I remember one time, my family had dinner with another pastor family and a PK asked me if we faced any trouble at church. And I really regret on not being able to share with her the troubles I faced. I guess we were a bit ashame and wanted to look good. I was teenager then, I didn't say anything. I wish I did, wished that we shared because I knew that she was having a difficult time and it was brave of her to bring up that topic and I still feel bad on not being responsive. I wish we kept in touch. I had her email but I lost it many years ago. I hope she's doing well. She lost her father who was pastor and I don't think the church treated her mom, who also worked at that church, too well. From my memory, her mom worked very hard at church and that took time away for the children. I wonder where she is now. I feel like an ass and a wimp not being able to help and care more.

There needs to be a ministry for PKs.

How we use God

I think sometimes we say "let God handle it", "let God take control" or "let God move His hand" and other similar sayings too causally. Some even use the such phrases to say "let's God do all the work, I will sit here and do nothing." Some simply misinterpret these popular sayings as an excuse of idliness, which the Bible preaches against.

At our church, the phrase "let God lead us" was used many times by different people. The meaning differ according to the different people who used it. Since 06, which is more than 2 years ago, the need of hiring a female pastor was raised in deacon board and it was agreed that church would hire a female pastor to accommodate the needs of the church. However, to this day, we still haven't hire a female pastor. I was there during the past 2 yearly church meetings, in '07 and '08, and at both meetings, our senior pastor and members and even ex-deacons raised questions about the progress of the hiring and emphasized the great need of a female pastor to help with the ministries at church. Brothers and sisters from different ministries demanded the deacon board to act, yet the chairman replied with a new excuse each time.

First, he said that they, the deacon board, would see if the church really needed one more staff.

This actually showed distrust of brothers and sisters at church, and the pastors at church. It was apparent to all who were involved in the ministries at church that there was an urgent need for a female pastors.

The staff were told to keep a log book afterward, and they kept the log book for a year and continued to do so to this day. A year afterward, the log book showed that the pastors were working about 13 hours per day. In a year time, existing ministries had expanded, fellowships had grew, new ministries had arised and church was going through changes as many couple were getting marry and we were seeing a baby boom.

Don't know how to start but I will just say what's on my mind and introduce myself a bit.

I am Calvin and I am a pastor's kid. I am a middle child and my dad has been serving the Lord before I was born, so I was basically born in church. Grew up in churches my whole life.

Been through some rough stuff growing up as a pastor's kid and in church. Actually I still do. I am currently going to the church my dad is serving at. I knew some other pastor's kids. Some are alright and doing well, and some not too good. I totally think there should be better support for pastors, pastor's wives and pastor's kids. I thought about collecting stories from pastor's kids and compile them into a book like a Chicken Soup book for pastor's kids, but that's probably something further on in the future. I am actually collecting stories now so, if you happen to be a PK and wouldn't mind to sure please send in a comment and feel free to email me at: cycalvinchu@gmail.com. Or if you are struggling, drop a comment and I can pray for you.

Well, anyway, as a pastor's kid, there are a lot of things that I can't tell most of my church members about because it might discourage them or simply because they wouldn't understand or for other reasons. So I basically vent by writing. I lush out my disappointment, frustration, pain, anger, outcry, sadness and etc with writing. During a conversation, the pastor of my previous church I went to suggested that I should start a blog.

So after thinking about it, I agree. It can be lonely as a PK sometimes and I hope that by sharing some of my experiences and thoughts, I might be able to help others. To bring better understand of PKs by others and let other PKs know that he or she is not alone. There are many of us out there who are probably going through similar experience.

Recently, there are many unpleasant things happening at my church right now. It has been difficult going to church sometimes, at times I feel like as if I am going into a battlefield. And God tells us that we are suppose to be his soldiers, but it is still hard because most people don't think church should be a battlefield, but a simple place of worship, praise and love. Many churchgoers do not know what's exactly happening at their church right now, with church politics, illnesses and weaknesses of the church and etc. But as an adult pastor kid, I get to experience and see a lot of things, some ugly and bad, that not too many people are aware of.

Things that you don't expect to be happening in a mob is happening at church. There are lies, backstabbing, insults and etc happening at church. I wonder sometimes whether some churchgoers actually believe in God, it seems that they are part of Satan's work more than doers of God's work. Some lie to hundred of people. to themselves and to God on the podium. It's shocking and very sad and demoralizing. People misquoting the Scriptures, bending the Words for their own selfish evil schemes. People using one another for reasons I cannot comprehend.

Yes, going to church to me is sometimes disappointing. I wonder at why these people are doing such things. Don't they call themselves Christians, literally meaning "little Christs," a name given to the early Christians because they were Christ-like and set apart from others. A lot of times people at church became part of the work of Satan because of insecurity, pride, selfishness, poor spiritual life, hate and etc. It hurts because they are hurting the flock. They are hurting the church, God church, and often me and my family as well.

As a PK, I sometimes get isolated, I get rough treatment, people say disrespectful things to me, expect certain things they don't expect from themselves or their kids from me and experience other such injustice. Of course, there are good people too and good side of being a PK.

But through all these experience and seeing how wrong things are, I see why we need God more than ever. Because men are crooked. We are sinful. We are stupid. We are freaking idiots and there's no God, no Christ, no cross, then there is no HOPE for us. All that is good come from God. Justice, beauty, truth and etc. We need God. We are hopeless without God. It would be a scary place if there's no Bible to tell us what's right and wrong. So, being at church, even when seeing all these things going wrong, it is really a reminder of how important God is and why it is so important for us to follow his Words. I don't want to be one of the bad guys. I want things to better. I want justice. I want truth to reign. And God is the truth.

In bad situation when it seems like all hope is lost and that Satan and his work is just pounding down, crushing me, all I got is God. He is my hope from all these wickedness.