Things to say to PKs

Sometimes, I think about the stuff that I have to listen to as a PK and how I wouldn't have to endure any of it if only I was just another "church goer".

Seriously, things that people talk to me about would usually send people away to another church in the least and make them stop believing in God altogether.

I wish people can at least "act" more "Christian" at church rather than being rude and insulting to their fellow brothers and sisters.

I guess PKs are just not part of the "brothers and sisters" of the church. We are something different. We are the aliens. We are disposable. Same with pastors.

I just wonder if those people ever consider us to have "feelings" too, that we are also human. I wonder if they know how unreasonable and hurtful the words they say hurt people. Well, many of them said those things intentionally. How evil. Really wonder how we can call ourselves "Christians", why don't we just call ourselves "shitheads"? Rev David Pao was right when he said we are all "scums".

Some Tips for Pastor's Kids

Advice for Pastor's Kids

On serving at church

You don't have to say "Yes" all the time. Mix some 'Nos" in there. Just don't say "No" all the time. Don't become an automatic yesman.
Serve in areas you like and find your gifts.
Remember that you are just another person at church, not a paid staff as some churchgoers might think of you to be. Your parent is the pastor, not you.

Be who you are, what God made you to be, not what churchgoers think you should be.

Pastor Statistics

Pastors today are faced with more work, more problems, and more stress than any other time in the history of the church. This is taking a frightening toll on the ministry, shown by the statistics below:

Pastors:

• Fifteen hundred pastors leave the ministry each month due to moral failure, spiritual burnout or contention in their churches.

• Four thousand new churches begin each year, but over seven thousand churches close.

• Fifty percent of pastors' marriages will end in divorce.

• Eighty percent of pastors and eighty-four percent of their spouses feel unqualified and discouraged in their role as pastors.

• Fifty percent of pastors are so discouraged that they would leave the ministry if they could, but have no other way of making a living.

• Eighty percent of seminary and Bible school graduates who enter the ministry will leave the ministry within the first five years. Ninety percent of pastors said their seminary or Bible school training did only a fair to poor job preparing them for ministry.

• Eighty-five percent of pastors said their greatest problem is they are sick and tired of dealing with problem people, such as disgruntled elders, deacons, worship leaders, worship teams, board members, and associate pastors. Ninety percent said the hardest thing about ministry is dealing with uncooperative people.

• Seventy percent of pastors feel grossly underpaid.

• Ninety percent said the ministry was completely different than what they thought it would be before they entered the ministry.

• Seventy percent felt God called them to pastoral ministry before their ministry began, but after three years of ministry, only fifty percent still felt called.

• Seventy percent of pastors constantly fight depression.

• Almost forty percent polled said they have had an extra-marital affair since beginning their ministry.

Pastors' Wives:

• Eighty percent of pastors' spouses feel their spouse is overworked.

• Eighty percent of pastor' wives feel left out and unappreciated by the church members.

• Eighty percent of pastors' spouses wish their spouse would choose another profession.

• Eighty percent of pastors' wives feel pressured to do things and be something in the church that they are really not.

• The majority of pastor's wives surveyed said that the most destructive event that has occurred in their marriage and family was the day they entered the ministry.

Pastors' Children:

• Eighty percent of adult children of pastors surveyed have had to seek professional help for depression.

Pastors' Relationship With the Lord:

• Seventy percent of pastors do not have a close friend, confidant, or mentor.

• Ninety-five percent of pastors do not regularly pray with their spouses.

• Eighty percent of pastors surveyed spend less than fifteen minutes a day in prayer.

• Seventy percent said the only time they spend studying the Word is when they are preparing their sermons.

Used

As a PK, I got no problem with serving with my heart and soul, but something often crosses my mind and it's that I might be "used."

I am not talking about being "used" by God, but about being "used" by people and their schemes.

Being put into difficult serving positions because as a PK, some people actually think that I am the "extra" part of church or the "extension" of the pastor, and not a regular brother or sister who has feeling, can get hurt, would complain and etc. PKs, in their eyes, can be "compromised" (and that is a nice word at that). At times I do know that I am being used. Being put into tough situation or serving positions that no one else wants to do, do the dirty work, not being treated honestly and etc. But I just do it anyway. Because I can see the ultimate good, and what I can do in those situation.

Some people might think I am stupid for doing all that, doing so much for so little in return, but my reward is not here. Some people, and in my case, the leaders and even some pastors would choose ministries and serving positions that get a lot of exposure and "rewards". Some of these serving positions require very little work but get great recognition. Some of the important dirty work are outsourced to others.

What are those earthly "rewards"?

Positions that would give them cult following. Positions that are prestigious like chairperson of this and that committee (where in some cases the actual work is given to the other "lower" members). Positions with uniform. In ministries that are fun and thus people would join and have fun and be happy and love the person in charge who also have a lot of fun. Nothing wrong with having fun, but using it also along line with making a following is wrong.

Actually this personality cult following trend is just utterly wrong and disastrous to the growth of church. It is very harmful and has a profound effect on current and future leadership of this church.

The people who are in leadership position is using this stupid and wrong strategy. It creates so much relationship/people problems, setbacks and dilemmas. And the worst thing is that the younger ones following the same strategy thinking that it is the "right" way to go.

Unity

Guys, the "HEAD" is GOD! Not individuals. We are suppose to make people into fans of God, not fans of other sinful human beings.

God unites us, by following God, we are united. When we follow people, we will be divided, and actually that's the situation right now. We are divided because we are following people.

Disturbed

I guess not too much encouragement here. A lot of venting here because the issues that I am facing are things that are difficult to talk with others, especially people from church.

Being a PK, a large portion of my life is revolved around church, just like many other devoted Christians out there. But there are some differences and one of the issue that I am facing is one of frustration. The frustration has to do with how my personal, family life is becoming part of church gossips and church politics.

It pisses me off literally. This post is actually ignited by what I typed in one of the older post. I was asked if I can differentiate between my father's serving and my own. I actually wanted to reply, "Can you differentiate?" and I wanted to add, "Why are you asking this question? What the intention of the question?" Why can't he just spit it out clearly?

GOSSIPING

Another rumor is about whether my brother would go back to US to study. It is somewhat a church gossip topic. Why does it matter whether my brother is going to US for school? Why is there such a rumor. The other part of the rumor is that maybe my dad would go with my brother to US.

What the heck? Where do all these rumors come from? How come I have to hear it from someone else? Why does my brother's future education possibility get on the church gossip column? Why is my brother being used in church politic?

It is wrong and I am angry. This should not be happening. I am further disappointed in how there's no concern and care about the feelings of my brother, father, mother and I in this matter. Whoever started this rumor is using my brother, an innocent young high school kid, as a tool for his own selfish reasons.

That person is polluted and perverted, and has a very serious problem. What the heck is wrong with him or her?

It is perverted, it is utterly wrong. Think about it. That gossiper used an innocent child's future education prospect as way to manipulate people's view of the senior pastor of the church.

How wrong can that be? And it's spreading all the way back to my family. Someone asked, "He [my brother] is going overseas for school?"

How come I don't know that? My brother is going to school overseas?

Intention

What is the intention behind this rumor? It is very clear, that the senior pastor, my father, is planning on leaving the church soon.

What the heck?

I pretty much guess the gossiper intended the rumor to make people doubt the senior pastor's commitment to the church.

So corrupted and such lack of moral and decency. Can he just shut up? And it's spreading, influencing many members of the church. People need to stop. People who heard the gossip have to tell that person to stop, and that it's wrong.

Afterthought

I actually questions people's ability to distinguish what's right and wrong, what's gossip and what's not. My church's education level is actually not bad and relatively highly educated in comparison to other churches. (At least the ratio of PhD is pretty good) But do we have high moral and ethical standard ? Is our sense of right and wrong strong? Can we distinguish black from white? And vice versa? Do we have a good relationship with God? Are we listening to Him? Are we reflecting on our lives with God's Word? Are we Christ's elite soldiers?

I wish the answer is "Yes," but it's probably a "No" for many and "Yes" for a few. I hope that there will be a revival and we need it now, not later, now.

I think part of the problem is that we are being influenced by worldliness, post-modernism. We learn to refer to terms such as things being "technically correct," "politically correct," "legally correct," "logically sound (logical),"and etc., but we forget about what's Biblically correct. Bible is no longer our guide, the Word of God is no longer paramount. We refer to the "government's standard" and other kinds of measurement. In other words, worldly standard.

We are in a difficult time, especially in a city like Hong Kong. We are dealing with a lot of worldly forces, the tools of satan. We need to be strong. We can't afford to kill ourselves at home (church), we can't afford to go on hurting one another. We need to consolidate ourselves. Get armed with our shield, helmet, armor and sword. Build up one another, not tear one another apart with gossips, rumors and other means.


May God help us.



I guess it's a good think my brother is going to another church, an English church, so he doesn't have to hear these ridiculous things. TC is the first church he went to in Hong Kong and he grew up here. He enjoyed Sunday school here when he was small but then his friends at Sunday school left and soon he was the only one in class. Very depressing. He had to join an older class. Also, the Sunday school "Chinese" textbook text was getting a bit too difficult for him to read. Now he's going to a church many of his friends go and they have a very good youth ministry there.

It's actually another example of how PKs get neglected. It's depressing, our parents spend so much time at church yet the needs of PKs are often not cared for (yet still be expected to be model in church). My brother had been going to TC for more than 4 years but when he left, nobody raised any concern. It seemed as if nobody cared. People only ask when it comes up in a conversation or when my brother comes for a visit and say something like, "I haven't seen him for so long." It hurts my mom a bit. In a span of about 4-6 months, nobody raised any concern. It's sad. It's unfair.

And...

It also raised other problems at church, such as:
How come my brothers' peers stopped going to Sunday ( and TC)?
Why did the families of kids leave TC?
If my brother left without follow-up, then, did the other kids (and their families) get any needed attention?

These questions lead to other questions, such as:

How come there are age (generation) gaps at church?
Why are people leaving?
Are we paying attention to the needs of people?

And these questions lead to more questions and so on...

Real Life

Today, I had lunch with a pastor at church and one of the questions that came up was, well, actually the question was very indirect, but the meaning was clear. It was about my commitment to church and whether I am serving because of my dad or not (or for church). It was very vague question but the intention and meaning of the question was very clear. It was on whether I am here committed to serve church whether my father would continue to serve the church or not. The pastor made the example of, "If your brother is going to school overseas with your dad, would you still be at this church? Can you make the distinction."

I find the question offensive. And I think he should know better. The question really was "if I would stay if my dad leave the church." He versed the question very carefully so that on surface it doesn't seem to be anything of significance but it is.

I have been asked to change my membership. And I have resisted not because I don't care. I care about the church intensely, I lose sleep because of bad things happening at church, I feel pain when things go wrong at church and my father feels the same.

I am very concern with the church, probably more concern than most of the "church members." Why? Because this is God's church. This is God's and it is being polluted and perverted. I cry for the innocent people at church. The new believers, the high school students, the young, the good and naive. I care for their spiritual walk, foundation in the faith and relationship with God. I would pain me a lot if I see the church decay. To see these energetic young Christians get perverted by twisted people who are too selfish to see the Truth. Too selfish to see God, too selfish and too prideful to see that this is not their church, this is God's church, Christ's body.

If an average church goer or member see what I see, know what I know about the ugly things that go on in this church, he would probably leave. In fact, a lot of people have left. There is reason why there's holes (population gap) at church.

Going to this church is difficult for me, but I serve here with my heart and devote much time to it because I believe that I could a difference and hopefully people can see that things can be improved, that we can make a breakthrough. I hope that through my serving, people can see my father's position. There are gossips going around, negative things going around about my father which are untrue. I want them to see that it's not so by action, not words, but action.

I knew that when I decided to be more involved at church that the more involved i am at serving, the difficult and painful it would be. because when you serve, you throw part of your heart out there, and naturally you get attached and form relationships with people. The deeper you get, the deeper the hurt can be when things go wrong. The stake go up. I think experienced pastors know this fact and so do people who serve wholeheartedly. It's kind of like the more you hope for the greater the disappointment could be.

And at times, even when you throw yourself out to serve, to make a difference, it might not be appreciated or accepted. You might rejected. We can see Paul experienced that sometimes in his letters. But as Christian, as servants of God, we sometimes have to make tough decisions and know that we do it for God. We do what's right and acceptable not in the sight of men but in the eyes of God. We serve God, that's our ultimate purpose. Sometimes we have to made decisions and act on them. We can fool people but we can't fool God and we will be accountable to Him.

We can be short-sighted and look only at treasures (of the world) that we can see with our naked eyes. The treasure is up there. That's what important, not what's down here. It pains me that even some pastors at church do not know what they are doing at best, or at worst, doing wrongs knowingly for personal benefits. That is painful to see. It's a petty. It's heartbreaking.

We can be so much better. We can do so much better. We have so much potential. But some of us chose not to and stall and limit what we can do for God.

We need God, the world needs God. The world, especially a place like Hong Kong, needs God. We need to know what's right and wrong, and say "No" to wrongs and do what's right. We are given free will, we are responsible for ourselves. We are responsible for our ministries, church, for our community, our city. Nobody going to do it for us. We have to do it. It should be our burden, our mission.

I answered with, "My approach is that I will serve as long as I am here," I don't know how long I would be here but as long as I am here, I would like to serve the church in whatever ways I can that would benefit the church. I serve the Lord and that's beyond any earthly church membership and barrier. I even said that it is difficult for me to see myself living in Hong Kong in the long run, permanently, like in ten years. As long as I am here, I would like to serve actively. That's my attitude in serving, I give what I can give: time, energy, heart, soul, mind, etc. 

I can't see what tomorrow going to bring. I do not know how long I would stay here. Anything can happen, things can change. People living in Hong Kong should understand this. We live in a society of constant change. But does that mean we don't do what is needed to be done now, just because we don't know what tomorrow is going to bring? No. 

It's like playing competitive sport, like football (soccer). As a player, you practice, train and keep your body in the best shape possible in preparation for the football match. You might be playing against a stronger team with little hope of winning, or you might get injured by a tackle, or you might get a red card, or you might be traded to another team before the next match, or you might even die on the field. Nobody knows, but you get prepare for that match no matter what. You hope to play well and you hope to win disregarding whether you know the outcome or not. 

What is it like being a PK?

Every now and then, I get people asking me, "What is it like being a pastor's kid? Do you have pressure?"

It's a question that I find myself having a little trouble to answer despite knowing the answer so well. I usually give the standard answer like "Yes, there is pressure. I have to think carefully before I speak..." And I think that's usually all I can say. There are a lot more but what can I say when a church member ask me?

I can't really say, "Well, I get to take in some of the heat from people misbehaving in church. I feel like I am pretending to be someone else sometimes. There are lots of crappy, stupid, maddening things happening at church and I can't talk about it with anybody. I get judged harshly and my parents get complaints when I mess up. I think people sometimes take us for granted, disrespecting us and I can't say anything about it. I get excluded sometimes because of who my dad is and not who I am. People expect a lot from me yet I don't get as much caring in return, at least that's how I feel. I feel that I am giving a lot at times without getting the caring and nurture I needed. People expect that I get a lot of pastor's care and know a lot about the Bible and theology because my dad is a 'living Bible dictionary' but you know what, the church took most of my dad's time from me. I don't get the same pastoral care as you, sometimes I get jealous of church members, when they have a problem they can call my dad while I, well, can't really go to my dad for some of the issues I have." And stuff like that. Some of them are just not ...appropriate I guess (there should be a better word for it).

What is it really like to be a PK in a Chinese church?

I actually been a PK in 2 Hong Kong churches, a Chinese-Australian church and a Chinese-American church.

It was good when I was little because I got a lot of attention and it was fun. Church was kind of like my playground and when you were a kid, people just adore you. Lot of big sisters there to pamper you and give you candies and stuff. And I was too young to know anything.

The hard part was going to another church especially during adolescent years. That was a time when support and peers really mattered. And also at that time, i began to know what was going on at church with stupid politics and gossips and etc.

Overseas Chinese Churches: 1st Generation and ABCs

In the overseas church like the Chinese-American and Australian churches I find that it were elders, the parents who were born in China who had the most problems and stir things. Making something out of nothing. Mostly, they are the onces who use different dirty tricks to disrupt ministries. They are somewhat polluted, very self-centered and play the power game at church. Very un-Christian. I guess they just have too much pride. Too much face. But then they are only a very small minority yet they affect the church so much because of their web of personal ties.

The ABCs, on the other hand, are more pure and don't get as much in politics. They are generally nice and good-intended people.

It has probably to do with how the 1st generation who came to US or Australia had to struggle and don't have much standing or status in work or in society so church is like the place where they can be powerful, with standing and etc. I am guessing here. Whereas the 2nd generation who grew up in US or Oz (Australia) do pretty well in their social standing at work and in society. They don't see themselves as second-class citizens, at least not as much as their parents who probably had a hard time dealing with English and this "new" environment. The ABCs see themselves more as Americans or Australians. They don't have much power jealousy at church and probably reared up well by the youth pastors who their parents hired specifically to make sure their kids turn out alright.

And Chinese kids generally do well in school so go to good universities and get good jobs. They are happier people, and their hearts for God is purer.

That's my theory at least. It's not base on any research but just on my observation.


Dad, pastor, serving, church

It's natural for PKs to serve in church. I think that can be one of the good things of being PKs, there's always opportunity to serve. Sometimes, we might get hauled to serve in stuff that nobody wants to do but I do get called on. It's like double-edged sword. When church people see a spot to fill, they often call the PKs first. There is some pressure there. My sister probably had a hard time with that. She had a hard time saying "No" to people and at times ended up being really exhausted from serving that takes away from the joy to serve our Lord and it became somewhat tedious and job-like. Some church leaders and pastors get push people a bit too much.

As a PK, I find it somewhat uncomfortable to say "No" because of the whole reputation, being the pastor's kid, you should a role model and some people have this really unhealth concept that when you hire a pastor, his wife and whole family come as a whole package-like buy one and get one to five FREE. (The buy one get one free concept is actually being abused in many overseas churches) The thing is that some people think that the pastor's family should serve as much as the pastor, like the extension crew and with that kind of thinking, the pastor's family just don't get appreciated. We become part of the church staff.

Not saying that we don't want to serve, but this attitude towards the pastor's family is just plain wrong. We should be treated as fellow Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ, not staff, outside people. One example I had was when we set up table. An older brother (usually Chinese refer to as an uncle) would tell me to set tables and i would do it without complaint but why was i the only one being called on by time to set up the tables? What about the other boys? His own kids? Why was I always (or very often) the only one called up? That's discrimination. I was set apart as being something different.

And I got minimum care and nurturing. I still remember the time when I was put into a very isolated room during summer retreat while all the other boys were roomed near one another. That was total isolation. I was not one of them. I was something else. I was staff. And I was only a teenager. There were little effort by the parents of other children to include me in their activities. They cared very much for their own kids but I was something else. If there was work to be done, tedious stuff, then I would be called on, but everything else I was excluded out on.

I was at that church for about 4 years and it was hard to take. But then I understood why so many pastor's kids hate church, runaway from church or are very rebellious. Did I see Christian love? Were we treated as fellow brothers and sisters? No way. We were being abused. We were being excluded, set apart. I totally can understand why some PKs turned away from Christ. A very regular church member would probably just leave that church, but a PK can't. His dad has a reputation, he has to be an example. People expected unreasonable things from PK and his dad and family.

If the same situation happens to a regular church goer, he would leave in anger. PKs are human and would do likewise. Some people blame it on the pastor, but it's the church people who are really responsible. What the pastor do? I truly feel for my fellow PKs and know a few who don't like church.

I remember one time, my family had dinner with another pastor family and a PK asked me if we faced any trouble at church. And I really regret on not being able to share with her the troubles I faced. I guess we were a bit ashame and wanted to look good. I was teenager then, I didn't say anything. I wish I did, wished that we shared because I knew that she was having a difficult time and it was brave of her to bring up that topic and I still feel bad on not being responsive. I wish we kept in touch. I had her email but I lost it many years ago. I hope she's doing well. She lost her father who was pastor and I don't think the church treated her mom, who also worked at that church, too well. From my memory, her mom worked very hard at church and that took time away for the children. I wonder where she is now. I feel like an ass and a wimp not being able to help and care more.

There needs to be a ministry for PKs.